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Author Topic: Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”  (Read 1696 times)

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Offline kerstinfroberg

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Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”
« on: January 29, 2020, 10:59:21 AM »
I work with a small industrial heritage museum of glass technology in Sweden (Bergdala glastekniska museum - https://bergdala-glastekniska-museum.se/eng-index.html ).
We try to offer the whole website in both Swedish and English, and knowing what auto-translate can do to specialized texts we try to translate it ourselves…
I hope it is okay to ask questions of this type here. I have tried several dictionaries without luck, in some cases probably ‘cos I do not know what word I am looking for…

In Sweden all “industrial” manual glassworks (like Kosta, Bergdala… that produce long series, still manually) use moulds for the blowing, sometimes just for the beginning of the item ( see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJM...wKbGlr4vmUMC0I ), sometimes for the final result.
Normally, the item is turned in the mould while blowing, to obtain the best finish. This way there can never be “seams” even if the mould is two-part.

So: what the worker is doing in the video, after the bowl is out from the mould – what is that called? In one glass dictionary, I found “flaring”. Is all after-the-mould operations called “flaring”? Even the hand-making of the spout (lip?) on a pressed cream jug, for instance?
(I found lots of interesting information from Adam D on pressing, in the archive. He uses the word “melter” for the person doing the finalizing of pressed items, but that is a too specialized word for what I need here. Also it is not a verb: “this cream jug has a melted lip” - )

If the item is not round, or there are decorations (such as logos or patterns) in the mould, it obviously can’t be rotated. In Swedish there is a term for that, straight translation gives me “fixed mould blowing”. (first picture on https://bergdala-glastekniska-museum.se/eng-press-general.html.)
 
What is the correct term for this in English? I have often seen the word “moulded” describing pictures of “fixed form”-blown items, but that implicates that ordinary (“round”) things are not blown in moulds, so it does not sound right for what I want to describe…

Of course I welcome *all* suggestions of what can be made better/more correct on *all* pages on our website!

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Offline Anne

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Re: Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2020, 06:59:38 PM »
Kerstin, you've raised some interesting questions so I'm going to move this from Cafe to Glass, as some folks don't visit the Cafe so will not see your request. Let's hope those who are more knowledgeable will spot your post there and respond to you.
Cheers! Anne, da tekniqual wizzerd
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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2020, 10:16:29 PM »
Hi Kerstin  -  it's either my fault, or there's an error with the second link - the YouTube item  -  it appears not to be opening for me.

However, despite not seeing this clip, I'd suggest that 'flaring' definitely wouldn't cover work after the glass leaves the mould.           The word 'melter' is also unlikely to be adequate to help people understand the final work on moulded glass - it may be thought of as relating just to the simple act of melting glass, and in fact it might not be possible, in this instance, to use a single word to describe those operations after the glass is removed from the mould.         
The difficulty is in finding the simplest way to describe what you mean when speaking to people who lack expertise in glass knowledge, which I assume are the people you have in mind.             As nice and convenient as it would be, it's often not possible to be that economic with terminology that we can use one word to describe perhaps multiple processes.

Expressions that might help others to suggest something for you, are ………..       final shaping  -  polishing  -  shaping and annealing  -  post-mould finishing  - final shaping of moulded glass.

Just to say Kerstin  -  if I could speak Swedish as well as you can speak English, I'd be ecstatic  -  your English is truly amazing.  :) 

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Offline kerstinfroberg

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Re: Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2020, 07:33:51 AM »
I don't know what happened, but here are a couple other videos - I hope at least one of them will survive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNeIadsTjQ8 (making a juice glass, shows all steps, ca 3 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJMvXUU5ME (making a breakfast bowl, shows all steps, 5:20 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws0xWgJT_TM (making a jug with handle, shows all steps - 2 gathers + application of handle, 7:23 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss7MeVday4s (making a plate, 2:23 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlKxE30ZhPQ (making a milk glass, 2:24)

Notice the modern way of "polishing" the pontil mark.

However: what are they doing (in English)? Are they "moulding", are they "flaring" - or?
I know that several words are necessary for "people who lack expertise in glass knowledge", but it would be so much better if at least some of those words are the words used by the experts (that is: by you)

At the moment I can't find a video showing the "fixed nould blowing", but the main difference is that the ("parison"??) is not/can not be turned in the mould. The not-turning will, apart from the assymetrical (ok, "not round") form, also give a different, less shiny, finish to the surface. It also can show seams from the mould.

Edited to add: all videos above are from Bergdala glassworks (https://www.bergdalahyttan.se/), behind which our museum is located. Apart from location, we have no business together.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2020, 09:18:53 AM »
thanks - I've now seen the first of your new links  -  'making a juice glass' -  very interesting, and these guys make a skilled job look so easy.                   

From reading your first post, think it's easy to underestimate the complete range of further work/processes involved after the glass is removed from the mould  -  in fact it might be the case that the part played by the mould is in fact quite a small part  -  we don't see the guy blowing, but assume he did blow to inflate the glass whilst in the mould.
Quite wrongly I'd assumed that the subject matter was more of  'put a gather into a mould, squeeze together, pull plunger, and a vase comes out the other end' -  sort of thing, but obviously that's not the case.            Seams can be avoided if the glass is 'turned', but where the gob isn't attached to a rod, and instead is pressed with a plunger, then the glass is static and seams do result.

Which is a way of saying that one word descriptions aren't going to be sufficient cover the various stages  -  at least not from what I've seen in making a juice glass  -  where several traditional tools are used, in addition to the mould.

Prior to use of the mould, it looks like the guy has used the 'blocking wood' (handled and made of wood with carved out hollow, and used very wet) to mould the gob into a roughly spherical shape.     Then into the mould, presumably blown to size whilst turning. 
After removal from the mould, the glass is shaped using what appears to be 'pucelas' (steel tool)  -  then possibly a 'pallet' (wooden) is being used to give a small indent (kick) in the base of the glass, and this is also probably wetted.
Assistant then uses steel pontil rod with small piece of plastic glass on end  -  attaches to base of juice and gaffer then breaks item free from his blowing rod.     Assistant returns to glory hole to reheat the neck so flaring and shaping of mouth of juice can be made  -  after which blue trailing is added to mouth of juice (difficult job to get right I'd suggest).            I like the economics of using blow torch to fire polish and remove signs of pontil scar - rather than more costly grinding and polishing of same.

So  -  you now need to find a single word, phrase or expression Kerstin that will encompass the above. ;)

I expect that others with a less flippant turn of mind will be able to provide you with more suitable explanations Kerstin  -  best of luck  -  members here are probably just about getting up now.


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Offline cagney

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Re: Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2020, 11:29:02 AM »
In their seminal book " American Glass " George and Helen McKearin  Go into some length on "Glasmaking and Ornamentation" in chapter two. With ten sub chapters covering everything from raw materials to furnaces, tools, molds, etc.
They simply use the term "fashioning" as in "blowing and fashioning a pitcher with stem and foot".
The descriptive sentence  after the piece is removed from the mold would be: "The piece is finished by the off-hand technique".

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2020, 12:20:27 PM »
would agree with you cagney that 'fashioning' is a very useful 'embrace all' term - and a good word too - that would legitimately cover additional work after removal from the mould.                    However, the issue from Kerstin's point of view is that it tells us nothing of the nature of those additional processes, and it might be his wish to inform a reader exactly what this fashioning actually meant.

Do people here consider that  "The piece is finished by the off-hand technique" - is adequate  -  am not sure it would mean much to me, though appreciate it implies post-mould work. ?

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Offline cagney

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Re: Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2020, 01:19:04 PM »
Certainly more detail can be had. In the previously mentioned book they illustrate with line drawings and text a 21 step process for making the aforementioned pitcher with stem and foot. From "securing the gather of metal" to"completed pitcher taken into tongs, the pontil rod being struck free from foot".

The term "off-hand" I believe is a glass makers term. Rough translation; "of the hand of the worker"


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Offline kerstinfroberg

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Re: Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2020, 05:31:20 PM »
Cagney, I am thankful for the book recommendation - however, when using bookfinder.com I get *lots* of (slightly) different books - different no of pages, very different printing years, at least 3 different publishing houses...

So can I ask you to give some more specification?
Is it the same as "Two hundred years of American blown glass", whis seems to be most readily available in Europe?

(it would be annoying to get the wrong book...)

Kerstin in Sweden

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Offline kerstinfroberg

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Re: Need help with terminology on diverse ”moulding”
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2020, 05:55:04 PM »
With a few new words under my belt (thanks, Paul!), would you all bear with me when I try to describe what happens in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNeIadsTjQ8 (making a juice glass, shows all steps, ca 3 min)

I know that all of you know what is going on, but if I was to describe the steps to someone less savvy... of course I might say/write "blob" but it would be nice to be able to add "which is called a parison" and so on.
All question marks are there because I want to make sure they are correct, or to be corrected. Please, all corrections welcome! (since I became aware of the Swedish words, I have only met one English-speaking glass blower... and she had work to do while I was asking, so I tried to restrain myself)

Description of the steps in the video “Making a juice glass”

The man (assistant) is gathering (“making a gather”?) glass from the pot in the furnace.

Then he is cooling the blowpipe with a spray of water.

Next comes marvering, the rolling of the blob (“parison”?) on a warm metal plate.
(we are not shown the first small blowing, very little air that then is stopped by his thumb and let go down into the blob (“parison”?) to make a little bubble – in one dictionary I find “making a gathering bubble”)

He is then using a wet blocking wood to make it nice and round, and blows some more.

At 0:53 seconds we see the mould closing on the parison, we see the parison turn in the mould (we don’t see the guy blowing, but I assure you: he is standing above the mould blowing into the blowpipe “until done”) and at 1:09 we see the mould opening. (The closing/opening and then wetting of the mould is maneuvered by the guy blowing, with his feet on one or another switch)
(They are using a closed mould, because this glass is to be made ready in the hot shop – had it been for later cracking the mould would have had a bigger hole at the top – then there had been a “moil cap”, according to one dictionary…)

After his using of the pucelas, he then uses the (wet) pallet to make the bottom flat.

Then the gaffer comes with a pontil (assuming the gaffer is the most skilled man of the chair/”team”) , places the pontil and the glass is broken free.

After re-heating in the glory hole, the gaffer opens (“flares”?) the mouth of the (is it still a parison, here, and is he still using a pucelas?) and waits for the assistant to come with the blue glass to put around the very top.

After another re-heating he uses another kind of tool (or is that too a pucelas?) to “flare” and give the final shape to the glass, which is then broken free from the pontil.

The pontil scar is then fire-polished, and the complete glass is taken to the annealing … cupboard (?).
This glassworks is too small to use the lehr unless they are making very big items.

Thank you for reading this far, and thank you in advance for all the comments I hope for!

(Paul, you wrote "Quite wrongly I'd assumed that the subject matter was more of  'put a gather into a mould, squeeze together, pull plunger, and a vase comes out the other end' -  sort of thing, but obviously that's not the case.            Seams can be avoided if the glass is 'turned', but where the gob isn't attached to a rod, and instead is pressed with a plunger, then the glass is static and seams do result."
This is a different process, called pressing. By reading several threads in the archives of this forum, I learned a lot bot about pressing procedures and the words that go with them.
But they do not necessarily apply to blowing, whether "off-hand" or using moulds)

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